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JimPhillips

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Reply with quote  #61 

Case # 12

Obviously, the first thing that jumps off the page in this section, is bro. Genusa's own use of editorial privilege, after being so critical of it in all Berean articles.  He entitles this section

"Those Who Hold Paul's Doctrine Ought Not Worship With an Ecclesia That Does Not"

The actual sentence he is quoting is:

"Those who hold Paul's doctrine ought not worship with a body that does not."

Now I have no objection to his change, and I only note it, as it demonstrates what editors--bro. Genusa included--do.  He exercises for himself a privilege he condemns in others.  Its very strange..

His first complaint is to the change of title.  Bro. Roberts had taken a letter from bro. Thomas, and made an article out of it.  This is the same practice used by Berean editors in Case # 11, which bro. Genusa has condemned.  Why there is no condemnation of bro. Roberts for this, is unclear.  But bro. Roberts had printed this letter/article twice, and had given it two different titles at two different times.  This demonstrates the point we have been making throughout this exercise.  "Editors edit!"  They do things like entitle articles in such a manner as to make them relevant to the reader in their day.  Bro. Roberts chose two different titles. "Fellowship and the Truth" and "The Sacrifice of Christ."  The first title was to draw the brethren's attention to bro. thomas' remarks on fellowship.  The second title was to draw brethren's attention to bro. Thomas' remarks on the Sacrifice of Christ.  The Berean editor blended both titles, to "Fellowship and the Sacrifice of Christ" as Central is clearly astray on both principles. 

The second complaint goes to the straw man that bro. Genusa likes to attack.  He complains that by the term "body" Bereans mean the whole fellowship, while bro. Thomas meant only the ecclesia.  This is where much of bro. Genusa's confusion exists.  Why such confusion exists is hard to say.  It is not for our lack of trying to dispel him from his notion.  The term bro. Genusa uses to describe his imaginations is "unionized."  This is a term derived from his horrible understanding of history.  He sees things as they are, and doesn't seem to be able to understand that this is the sum total of many years of strife, not something that came about in an instant. 

"Unionized" is a wrong term in so many ways.  It implies a unity which is forced.  Bereans believe unity cannot be forced.  It cannot be imagined.  It either exists, or it doesn't.  Bereans believe that unity in the truth is the natural outgrowth of men and women who share the truth.  Unity is the by product of love in the truth.  There is no other way to achieve it. 

Bereans today, are a confederation of ecclesias which withdrew from other ecclesias who thought they were at liberty to worship with bodies who rejected Paul's teachings.  Those of us who withdrew from ecclesias unwilling or unable to declare themselves sound, organized ourselves for our uplifting and encouraging.  In this we achieved true unity.  The term "Berean" refers to those ecclesias who withdrew from the hounds, and organized themselves on the basis Christadelphians held from their foundation, that is, before the hounds were allowed into the fold.

The body is the ecclesia.  Bereans believe this.  We presume all Christadelphians believe this.  Bro. Thomas' teaching is that a man ought not to worship with a body (that is, an ecclesia) where the truth concerning the Nature and Sacrifice of Christ is destroyed.  Bro. Roberts printed this article to underscore why he was separating from the Renunciationist ecclesias, as well as from those ecclesias who would associate with them.  He printed this article to show why he took then, the identical position that Bereans take today.

But, in 1919, some individuals who called themselves Christadelphians in Buffalo N.Y., decided that they could worship with a body which destroys the Scriptural teaching concerning the nature and sacrifice of Christ.  For this reason, those in their ecclesia withdrew from this particular heresy.  What were they to do?  They organized themselves into another ecclesia, and explained to neighboring ecclesias their objection to the ecclesia they had withdrawn from.

Some in neighboring ecclesias agreed with those withdrawing, that they shouldn't worship with a body that does not hold Paul's doctrine.  They then withdrew from that ecclesia.   But, other neighboring ecclesias felt that they could worship with the body who did not hold Paul's doctrine.  What were to be done with those neighboring bodies?  Bro. Thomas' words applied.  You shouldn't worship with a body (ecclesia) that does not hold Paul's doctrine.  But what if you do?  Then you are holding with the hare and running with the hounds.  No, if you think you can worship with those who do not hold Paul's doctrine, then we will not fellowship with you. 

Individual ecclesias then, found that they could fellowship with some neighboring ecclesias, and could not fellowship with others.  Each ecclesia made its own independent decision who to fellowship.  The ecclesias then identified themselves in such a manner that it was clear which side of this issue they fell on.  This was no different than in the Dowie Division, the Renunciation Division, the Partial Inspiration division, or the Unamended Division.  After declaring their position on the issue, they looked around to see if anyone else so declared.  Finding this to be the case, the ecclesias who felt they must not worship with a body who denied Paul's teaching, fellowshipped together.  They then began to organize, so as to strengthen one another.  Names came to be attached to the various confederation of ecclesias, which identified their specific position. 

This is what fellowships are today.  They are ecclesias, loosely bound in confederation upon common principles.  Their names (Berean, Unamended, Dawn, Old Paths, Central) are no more relevant than the name Christadelphian was, in the beginning of our movement.  It is the principles upon which the individual ecclesias are formed which confederate and bind them, not their name.  As bro. Thomas said to those who objected to the name "Christadelphian," "a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet." 

(To be Continued)

STEVEPHS

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Eur. II: 89-90  But apart from this Holy Apostolic Laodicean Catholic Apostasy, there was a community, comparatively small, that hated the deeds and doctrines of these Nikolaitanes and children of the woman Jezebel. It repudiated “the depths of the Satan as they taught;” and with “a little strength,” kept the word of the Spirit, and did not deny his name. This community of faithful ones was preserved from the hour of temptation which came upon the whole habitable to try them. These who stood aloof from the Apostasy, protested alike against “Catholics,” Jews and Pagans. They were zealous for “the faith once for all delivered to the saints,” and contended earnestly for it, both against their own “fellow-servants” and nominal “brethren,” who were fraternizing with the liberal non-professing world, and conspiring with them against the government; and against Pagan and Jewish clergies and their blasphemous and profane traditions with which they “destroyed the earth.” This Philadelphian community was in all things opposed to the Laodicean. Its members “walked after the Spirit,” or the truth; and through that spirit mortified the deeds of the body; while the Laodiceans, who had an overweening conceit of their own piety and spiritual intelligence, “walked after the flesh,” in the fashion universally illustrated in the practice of the pietists of all the “Names and Denominations of Christendom,” and of the “christian politicians,” “liberal christians,” and the political wire workers and pullers, of our day. The Philadelphian party had no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but reproved them. They had escaped from the corruptions of the world through lust, and devoted their energies to the making of their calling and election sure. They came out , therefore, from among the Laodiceans, that they might not be defiled by the uncleannesses of these unfaithful “fellow-servants and brethren,” and constituted what the Laodicean Catholics termed a Schism or Heresy.

 
Can someone please elaborate on the way in which Philadelphia 'came out'.  Bro Thomas says above that The Philadelphian party had no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but reproved them.   Did they consider the false ecclesias to be something other than what they considered themselves to be, and how do you prove this?   
 
Can I also ask who was the inventor of vertical fellowship in the history of Christadelphia?
 
Thanks
 
Bro Steve
 
JimPhillips

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Hello bro. Steve,

What are you calling "vertical fellowship?" 
JimPhillips

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Again bro. Steve, this is how I would answer your first question (and this is cut and paste from things I've written, so I hope it makes sense)

 

The Apocalypse was not written for everyone.  The first verse indicates that it is only written for the servants of Deity.  Those who try to develop doctrine from the Apocalypse, before they have mastered the divine teachings from Jesus and the apostles, are destined to fail.  This is the problem our Nicodemite brethren faces when they try to develop a teaching from the Apocalypse that goes directly against the writings of the apostle Paul.

The ecclesias of Revelations are not literal ecclesias.  They are symbols of the condition of all Christianity over the first 280 years of Christianity.  Bro. Thomas at times, speaks of the ecclesial state, as if it is one ecclesia, and this has led some to misunderstand his teachings on fellowship.  It wasn't one ecclesia.  It wasn't one fellowship.  It was many fellowships made up of all who called themselves Christians.  There was the assembling of the faithful brethren in the Apostle's Fellowship, also called the Antipas Fellowship.  But side by side with them, were the fellowships of the Synagogue of Satan, made up of Nicolaitans, Balaamites, Jezebelites, etc.  These errorists began as "called out ones" in the ecclesias though they became unfaithful to their calling.  But these brethren existed in distinct organizations.  That is not to say that all members of the Synagogue of Satan were "called out ones" because they weren't.  As the Synagogue of Satan became more and more corrupt, then pagans who had never been called to the truth could feel quite at home.  But that is not the way the apostate ecclesias started.  They started out with "called out ones" who had become disobedient.  But the point to keep in mind, in understanding Revelations, is that the Synagogue of Satan and the Apostles fellowship, while both "called out ones" or "the ecclesia," were not in the same fellowship.  Of these organizations, bro. Thomas wrote (as quoted above)

"The name Christians comprehended all the adherents of Balaam and Jezebel, whether Ebionites, Gnostics or by whatever name or denomination of heresy, they might be known. The 'real christians' had NO FELLOWSHIP WITH SUCH; though among them, as in Pergamos, the poison of the serpent might be detected. The ecclesia and the synagogue of the Satan were institutions as distinct as they are now; for in the nineteenth century a true believer of the gospel of the kingdom is against all who have not obeyed the same,"

This is the point so missed by those advancing the Revelations as a guide for how fellowship should be treated.  The Baalamites and the Antipas existed in the Pergamian state, but they had no fellowship with each other.  They were "distinct organizations."  Jezebel was permitted by the Star Presbytyre of the Satan's Synagogues, to teach Satan's depths, but the Apostolic Fellowship, did not "know" or fellowship them, and as such were protected from them.

 

Philadelphia represents the period of Diocletian's persecution.  A brief ten year period, 302-313 AD.  Diocletian, after a fairly mild rule, decided that the problem of the Roman Empire was Christians.  He was right of course.  But there was nothing he could do about it.  But he began an intense persectuion of all Christians in the Sardis state in his final ten years.  These Christians were mostly "dead" in that they were entirely corrupt except for the Apostles Fellowship who were separate and distinct from these, and entitled the "Few Names."

 

Diocletian's persecution killed many nominal Christians, and caused many more of Satan's Synagogue to return to Pagan worship.  The end result was a purifying of Christianity.  The 'Few Names" of Sardis, freed from Jezebel and Balaam and the like by Roman persecution, morphed into the Philadelphian Ecclesia, a pure, loving body of called out ones, intensely persecuted and slain under the altar for Jesus' sake.  At this point, the only folks left calling themselves Christians, were those "Few Names" dedicated to the Apostles' Fellowship. 

STEVEPHS

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Hi Jim

What I meant by vertical fellowship is the idea preached by some that you are in fellowship with the Father and Son and therefore not responsible for what fellow members believe or teach.  There is a brother about 120 miles from us who will meet with those who believe or support error but he will not allow the emblems to be passed to him by those people.  Instead, he takes the emblems directly from the platform.   I guess there are views in Central of 'vertical' fellowship and also "at the door fellowship".

My parents view before coming to a knowledge of the doctrine of fellowship, belived in at the door fellowship, they belived they were only responsible for the fellowship of those in their own local ecclesia.    There are many in Christadelphia we have come across though who believe in vertical fellowship.

Bro Steve
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Reply with quote  #66 
Vertical and Horizontal Fellowship

There is an UA ecclesia in ark that practices vertical fellowship. They say that fellowship at the table is with the Father only (vertical), and that their fellowship one with another (horizontal) is not relevant at that time.

It is a teaching also found in some protestant churches.

One will cite early brother Thomas to support this (not Scripture). As we know, the Doctor matured in later years on the doctrine of fellowship - in one instance writing that a couple of ecclesias in his day, in effect, practiced this custom that was "peculiar to themselves." In so writing, we take him to mean that it was not his practice.

The practice is, of course, unscriptural.


JimPhillips

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I don't know who introduced the idea, but it was a prevalent idea among those withdrawn from by Temperance Hall, by the early 1890s.  There is, in bro. Jannaway's article which was case one in this exercise, a reference to it when the writer said we cannot control who we are in fellowship with.

I don't have my notes before me right now, (Kay and Jaymie and I are in Lampasas this morning) but as I recall bro. Roberts also commented on it in response to the article known as the "Open Door."  Both of these articles came in the 1891-1892 era.  They were products of desperation, when the brethren who wanted union above unity had come face to face with the fact that those Christadelphians who embraced "Partial Inspiration" were not going to change.  Since the errorist was not going to change, it became necessary to change the sound brethren.
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Our attention has been drawn to a recent complaint by bro. Genusa concerning some writings from the Mutual Magazine (the forerunner to the Berean). The complaint centers on three points.  First, a series of articles in the Mutual Magazine  called  "Echoes of Past Controversies" by bro. Harry Fry.  These articles occurred prior to the Berean division in May of 1923.  Second, Jury Duty, by bro. F. G. Janaway, and third, the "Work of National Importance" concerning the Christadelphian movement and bro. F. G. Janaway. 

The first point that comes to mind in reading this is a certain satisfaction derived from the fact that bro. Genusa has had to go back to before there were Berean ecclesias, to complain about Berean ecclesias.   It sort of reminds me of bro. George. Booker's article "Confessions of an Ex Berean."  The first thing bro. George confesses, was that his first complaint against the Bereans, (that Bereans received into fellowshipped divorced and remarried brethren) had been wrong, and the Bereans had been right all along.   Yes, bro. George, we know that!

Now bro. Genusa is telling us that before the Bereans separated from Temperance Hall Fellowship, there were errorists, and defenders of errorists in Temperance Hall Fellowship.  Yes, bro. Genusa, we know that!  That is why the separation took place. 

Bro. Genusa finds it incredible that the brethren who ultimately formed the Bereans, gave bro. Fry every benefit of the doubt to the point of publishing this group of articles.  I don't find it surprising at all.  I think a consistent characteristic of Berean brethren, has been (and still is) that they are far too willing to give false brethren every benefit of the doubt, even when the time for such benefit is long past.  Bro. Fry came forward with the argument that some brethren were acting in a manner extreme to our past.  His argument was, paraphrased: 

Of course the sin in Christ was literal and physical.  Of course he had to offer for himself to be rid of this sin.  But you are ignoring the other side of this, which is that our sins are forgiven for Jesus' sake.

 It was in this context that he brings forward his erroneous "Partial Atonement" arguments.  And I find it not at all surprising, that those who were separating were very anxious to hear this argument out.  The 1923 division was not carried out quickly.  The seeds were sewn over ten years previous.  When you go back and read the articles from this time frame, you find that the British brethren were focused on the Constabulary Issue at Temperance Hall, but were being very careful about the "clean flesh" teaching in the USA. Most of the prominent British brethren were claiming that bro. Strickler was simply misunderstood. After all, bro. Roberts had even mentioned that while A. D. Strickler was crotchety, he was fundamentally sound. So when bro. Fry comes with this article, suggesting, as he does, that the brethren "overseas" are taking an extreme position, it played right into the British brethren's preconceived notions, including those who were anticipating separating from Temperance Hall.. That the brethren were very cautious, very interested in considering if they were acting properly, is consistent with the Berean's history.

The articles, which became the booklet "Echoes of Past Controversies" are at their root,  a defense of the notion of maintaining error in fellowship.  Bro. Genusa charges that the booklet teaches "Clean Flesh" and, in a fairly evasive manner, it does, but that is not its intent.  If you think about it for a minute, you'll realize there couldn't be anything specifically identifiable as false doctrine in this booklet.  If there was, bro. Fry would have lost all influence with the class of brethren (the true believers) which he was trying to influence to remain with the newly forming Synagogue of the Satan (Temperance Hall).  He knew there was no problem holding the pseudodelphians,  those brethren in name only, along with the errorists in Temperance Hall Fellowship.  It was the sound brethren, the Christadelphians who were poised to separate from Temperance Hall, which provided the obstacle to bro. Fry's desired union.  Had he produced something in his booklet that could have been clearly labeled as error, his entire effort would have been exposed and thwarted.

"Echoes of Past Controversies" is not an attempt to teach false doctrine.  It is an attempted rewriting of the history of the truth, written from a very biased position, intended to cause brethren to make wrong decisions on fellowshipping error (not unlike bro. Genusa's history!)  It was a cleverly disguised argument for tolerance, which tried to blend the truth with error. 

By running these articles, bro. Genusa reasons that the Bereans (though bro. Genusa acknowledges the Bereans are not yet formed) are somehow responsible for "Clean Flesh" in Central.  This is Ahab's argument to Elijah, "art thou he who troubleth Israel?"  Exactly how bro. Genusa figures the Bereans contract this guilt is unclear.  He acknowledges that all the ecclesias were independent.  I'm sure (relatively sure at least) that he understands that the Mutual Magazine, and the Berean Magazine which followed, are private enterprises, and not the responsibility of any ecclesia confederating itself with the Berean ecclesias.  How he makes the jump from independent ecclesias and private magazines operating before there were Bereans, to some sort of community guilt which continues 90 years is, as I said, unclear. 

The brethren separating from Temperance Hall, finally come to a correct conclusion concerning bro. Fry, and took the appropriate action. 

I share bro. Genusa's question concerning what were they thinking as they read this, and why did it take them so long to figure bro. Fry out?  Now, while bro. Genusa and I share that question, we take a completely different approach to the answer.  Bro. Genusa is quite hard on those brethren, pretty much concluding that they are without excuse.  He blames them for introducing "Partial Atonement" to Christadelphians.  As we have seen throughout this exercise, his history is usually quite flawed.  This is no exception.  So lets go back over the material he has presented us.

In 1898, bro. Fry had been withdrawn from by Bournemouth, for teaching what would today be called "Partial Atonement," a derivative of the "Clean Flesh" doctrine.  A year later, the same ecclesia brought him back into fellowship with the following explanation:

BOURNEMOUTH (WINTON).It is with extreme pleasure we report a reunion on a Scriptural basis with those from whom we have been for some time separated. Brother H. Fry has removed to London. We have commended him to the fellowship of Gresham Hall ecclesia. Sister Beck, from Salisbury, has come to reside here and will meet with us. Visitors during the month have been sister Ludlam, Bristol; brother W. Taylor, London. Death has been amongst us once again. This time it has taken from brother Wyatt his only son, aged three months. Oh that the time may soon come when there shall be no more death, pain, or sorrow. We are sorry to report our withdrawal from sister Emma Witheridge and brother Witt, for continual absence from the Lord’s table.—J. Wilkinson. [my underlining--JP]
The Christadelphian : Volume 36 Bd. 36. electronic ed. Birmingham : Christadelphian Magazine & Publishing Association, 2001, c1899, S. 36:80

Bro. Genusa says bro. Fry is brought back into fellowship without changing his mind.  Well, that may be.  How can anyone truly know what is in a person's mind?  But somebody at least confessed that they changed their mind.  The ecclesia says that a re-union occurred on what the ecclesia called a Scriptural basis.  So either bro. Fry said he changed to agree with the ecclesia's understanding of Scripture, or the ecclesia changed to include bro. Fry's understanding of Scripture.  One way or another, someone confessed to a change, so that this reunion could take place.  A quick search of bro. Fry shows that he soon returned from London to Bournemouth, and he was a frequent speaker in neighboring ecclesias.  He was often accompanied by bro. G. S. Sherry, who was the Recorder when bro. Fry was removed from fellowship. Bro. Growcott personally relayed to me that bro. Sherry was a very sound brother on the Nature and Sacrifice of Christ.  How bro. Growcott knew this, I do not know.  The recorder of Bournemouth when bro. Fry was brought back into fellowship was bro. J. Wilkinson.  When the division took place in 1923, bro. Wilkinson separated from Temperance Hall and joined in the confederation of ecclesias which came to be known as the Bereans.  That bro. Fry could have peacefully coexisted with these two brethren for 20 years would seem to me to indicate that bro. Fry must have admitted to a change in views when he returned to fellowship, and if the change had been insincere, he kept it well hidden.

Now we come to the articles themselves, published under the name "Echoes of Past Controversies" which I will shorten to "Echoes."  Were the foundations for false doctrine cleverly laid in the articles?  Yes, we see this quite clearly in retrospect.  But the foundations of the truth are acknowledged and affirmed as well.  These articles were a blending of truth with error.  Would we have seen this had we been living at a time contemporary with bro. Fry?  Or, knowing the proper context of the quotes he used, and knowing that they did not teach "Clean Flesh," would we have seen these quotes as bro. Fry's effort to maintain the balance so often missed on this subject, which was his public contention?  Its always hard to correctly judge that question. 

It is nearly 25 years after the death of bro. Roberts.  Many brethren at this time, never knew him, or heard him speak.  And so now comes a prominent brother, quoting him, and saying that he knew him, and this is what he taught!  I find it no more unusual that bro. Fry commanded an audience this way, than I find it unusual that bro. Genusa's history receives some following today.  If we go back to the 1960s, we find bro. Harry Whittaker and others lamenting the fellowship practices which required complete separation from error, in the "Victorian Age."  But a lot of time has passed since then.  Brethren don't know the true history of the time.  And so bro. Genusa can get away with telling us that those lamenting the "iron curtains" of the past were wrong, and bre. Roberts and Thomas never set up such things.  

Note that all the things bro. Genusa claims as error in "Echoes", are not, by themselves, error.  (This is partly due to his poor selection, as there are clearly erroneous statements in "Echoes.")  But for the most part, the quotes used by bro. Fry are almost all derived from statements by bre. Roberts or Thomas, and when properly understood in the context bre. Thomas and Roberts set out, they represent the truth.  Those of us who have read "Out of Darkness into Light," or "A Defense" or any of the writings by Richard Stone, John Hensley, or John Martin are well conditioned to see through these arguments.  But these brethren were doing this on the fly, experiencing this argument for the first time.  Is it fair to judge them by our standards?

Also, quite different than modern "Partial Atonement" believers, bro. Fry's statements are also couched in statements that "Clean Flesh" and "Partial Atonement" advocates could never say.  Most importantly of all, bro. Fry early on confirms the accuracy of bro. Thomas' statement that sin could not have been condemned in the body of Jesus, had it not existed there.  He affirms bro. Roberts statement that the declaration of God's righteousness was the condemning of the sin body on the cross.  You cannot affirm "Clean Flesh" while affirming either of those positions.  I don't personally agree with the detail bro. Fry brings out, but our objection to the teachings of the "Partial Atonement" has never been to what they teach, but rather to what they deny.  Bro. Roberts, in "Questions and Questions," gives us this basis.  He asks, In whatever sense Jesus bore our sins, did they not become his.  And if his, did they not require an offering?  I would conclude from "Echoes", that Bro. Fry would have answered this question, Yes.  Here are some of his writing from "Echoes" setting forward the truth of our position, in opposition to that taken by modern "Clean Flesh" and "Partial Atonement" advocates.  

"Unfortunately some brethren fix upon a particular class of quotations expressing one aspect of truth, and exclude others presenting another phase, whilst other brethren give their undivided attention to that  aspect excluded by the former.

"Looking at the matter from these two angles is like looking at the two sides of the proverbial shield, and strife results because each interprets the one in a manner which excludes the other. Brethren quote extracts such as we have already referred to, showing that Christ was a partaker, by inheritance from Adam, of our sin-defiled and condemned nature : e.g., " Sin could not have been condemned in the body of Jesus it it had not existed there;" "his body was as unclean as the bodies of those for whom he died ; " and similar extracts which teach that Christ was cleansed from this inherited sin taint ; and redeemed from Adamic mortality in the process of death, resurrection, and immortalization.

"Now all these are literal physical facts. But they are only part of the facts. There are other facts and figures to take into consideration. It is also a fact that God appointed the particular mode of Christ's death, that the ritual symbolism of the Mosaic law might converge, and be repeated in, the death of Christ, upon the I fundamental principle of sacrifice that ''the blood is the life" (Lev. xvii. 11-14). The first series of facts made Christ especially _ suitable as a subject of the ritual and ceremonial symbolism  which his death was intended to exhibit. He was to be the "sin-bearer," to redeem others of the race from death ; and the fact that he inherited death as the consequence of sin. (not his own, but the sin of Adam—from the effects of which he had to redeem himself) made him the suitable representative of sinners, to bear away their actual transgressions in a ceremonial or ritual manner, or as expressed in literal language, provide a basis for the forgiveness of those who identified themselves with his sacrificial death or had died in faith under the old covenant. (Rom. vi. 2 ; Heb. ix. 15). When brethren look at Christ and seek to find in him personally the reason for the tragic event of Calvary, they take too narrow a view." [Emboldening Mine--JP) Mutual Magazine, 1922 pg 36

What "Clean Flesh" teacher will argue today, that bro. Thomas' statement that sin could not have been condemned in the body of Jesus. had it not existed there, was a "literal, physical fact," and "one aspect of the truth" of the matter?  Bro. Fry did, showing he wasn't teaching "Clean Flesh" but urging tolerance for the "Clean Flesh" views already present in Temperance Hall Fellowship.  Again he references bro. Thomas' statement, acknowledging that sin existed in Christ as a fact:

"The sin that was condemned in this ceremonial way is sin in the larger general sense. The sin-nature which Christ personally possessed, stood as representing sin in the abstract; just as he stood personally as the representation of transgressors. When Dr. Thomas said that " sin could not have been condemned in the body of Christ if it had not existed there," it by no means implies that it was only the sin that existed there that was condemned." [Emboldening Mine--JP] Mutual Magazine, 1922 pg 42.

Again, bro. Fry, acknowledges that sin existed in the body of Christ, and that it was condemned there.  Bro. Fry, while downplaying its role in the current controversy (current to 1923,) never denies the physical aspect of sin.  He writes:

"There was a time when it was needful to emphasize the physical aspect of sin, because it was this aspect that was ignored, but the pendulum swung to the other extreme. Undue prominence to this aspect has resulted in quite a mechanical view of justification, and sin bearing." [Emboldening mine--JP]  1922 Mutual Magazine pg 165

Modern "Partial Atonement" folks have no such thing as a physical aspect of sin.  To them, the physical body "symbolizes" sin, and is not an aspect of sin.  To them, sin is only moral.  This is an important distinction bro. Fry never makes in this article. 

Next, Bro. Genusa calls our attention to a debate, published in the Berean Magazine for December of 1923.  Even then, it is apparent that bro. Fry is not yet showing his true colors, if they even were, at this time, his colors.  He is not defending the Stricikler error.  The report is that he in fact, is admitting that bro. Strickler's teaching is error, while arguing that Christadelphians should fellowship with error.  It is two years later that bro. Fry either changes back to his 1898 position or shows what his true colors have been all along; (depending on your point of view) and admits to agreeing with bro. Strickler.  In 1925 bro. Strickler tells the brethren that bro. Fry agrees with him, and bro. Fry confirms this.  But by this time, the Berean confederation of ecclesias are having no fellowship with bro. Fry's meeting, which is continued in Temperance Hall Fellowship.

****

I find bro. Genusa's comments on the military question disconcerting.  I recommend all brethren on military committees (I'm on the Berean Committee) familiarize yourself with bro. Genusa's arguments, for we may now be asked about this if and when the draft is reinstated.  As you know, nothing on the web, once posted, can be undone.  Who knows how the authorities may interpret bro. Genusa's criticisms, and what new questions and objections they may come up with as a result of his discussion.

The "Work of National Importance" program in Britain was the equivalent of our O2 status in the US.  These are men drafted as other men in society are, but who serve in only a civilian capacity.  We sometimes use the term CPS, meaning Civilian Public Service.  On a web site dealing with conscientious objectors, a participant offered that during WW1, the largest participation in the "Work of National Importance" program were Christadelphians, with 1700 participants.  I don't know where he got his figures.  Bro. Jannaway was roundly thanked by Christadelphians, even by such as bro. Fry, for his participation in this program.

In 1916, when Britain instituted the draft, there were no conscientious objector programs.  Britain's first response was to draft men, court marshal them, and imprison them.  As a point of emphasis, the War Office shipped (I can't remember if it was 60 or 160) men to France with the intention of executing them as a warning to those who refused to fight for Britain.  The War Office thought they could get away with this in France, but they couldn't.  This program was exposed, and the men were brought back.  The Work of National Importance program, then came into being.  I don't know why bro. Jannaway contributed so much money.  I've not found any indication that Churches were required to support those in the program.  I do know, from my father's experience in WW II, that the brethren in these programs had no money, and often needed donations from the local brethren to even get to meetings.  I discussed this program with bro. John Randell who was in it in Britain.  He worked on a dairy farm.  He was grateful for being in the country, away from people, as they were not friendly to young men who refused to fight for Britain.

Bro. Jannaway confesses to having made mistakes in the early stages of this program.  He does not, to my knowledge, say what these were.  I always felt they were technical things.  Bro. Jannaway's actions, and his position on the draft was exactly what it should have been.  Christadelphians then, and now, do not refuse the civilian programs set up by the government.  We do refuse to participate in the legal systems, whether national (armed forces) or local (police forces/Special Constabulary). 

*     *     *     *     *

On jury duty, Bereans take a different position than that publically stated by bro. Jannaway.  There may be reasons for this which are not readily apparent.  I have always understood that some of the reason for this difference is between the American and British court system.  I have been told, and I've seen some research to back this up, that the British system required the jury to merely advise the judge.  The judge listens to the opinion of the jurists and then renders his own decision.  Some feel Christadelphians could do this, as they are not actually making a decision.  In the American system, the judge cannot over rule the jury.  He can set aside a juries' decision and call for a new trial, but the jury actually renders the decision.  So Christadelphians cannot participate in the American system. 

My experience with law, is that it is quite fluid, and apt to be different, not only from nation to nation, but from district to district within a nation.  In researching divorce law in the United States, I was amazed at how little uniformity existed today, and this increases 100 fold as we go back in time.  For instance, some districts, concerned with polygamy permitted a wife to divorce her husband if he simply converted to Mormonism.   I doubt any reasonable amount of study will shed much light on why bro. Jannaway felt it was acceptable to sit on a jury. 

*     *     *     *     *
 

I think it is fair to say that bro. Jannaway had a higher opinion of the legal system, than was spiritual.  And, people change.  He apparently once believed you could sue at law to recover a debt, but clearly changed from that position.  And, isn't that the ultimate point?  While all this wrangling over history is both enlightening and instructive, none of it changes the bottom line as to where the two fellowships are today.  The Bereans today, obey the divine command to separate from error, and not give it standing among us.  Central tolerates (indeed elevates) error in its ecclesias, and the errorists chase around and chase away those in Central who still hold fast to the Christadelphian faith.  How we got to our respective places is interesting, but won't matter in the slightest at the judgment, when we are are personally asked why we, today, refused to obey a divine command.

JimPhillips

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On how bro. Growcott knew what bro. G. S. Sherry believed, bro. Freddie Higham relayed this information to me.  Bro. Rene Growcott's father was imprisoned in Britain for refusing to enter the Army, during WW l.  A constant visitor to him in prison was bro. F. G. Jannaway.  They apparently struck up a friendship which continued following the war.  It was through their relationship with bro. Jannaway, that they were familiar with the beliefs of some of these brethren of old.

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The Bereans today, obey the divine command to separate from error, and not give it standing among us.  Central tolerates (indeed elevates) error in its ecclesias, and the errorists chase around and chase away those in Central who still hold fast to the Christadelphian faith.  How we got to our respective places is interesting, but won't matter in the slightest at the judgment, when we are are personally asked why we, today, refused to obey a divine command.



If only they would realise the seriousness of their position, bro Jim.   They are not going to be able to make a historical case at the judgement seat but will be asked why they have failed to respond to the apostolic commands.  

One thing confuses me greatly is that there is no other brother I know of who has done so much to expose the errors in the Central group than bro Genusa.    They argue that they must stay, fight and strengthen the things which remain.  How are they progressing?   This is the same point that was made to Bro Arthur when he notified Central he was leaving 25 years ago - a brother said to him, concerning the Endeavourite movement, we are actively fighting against them.    Did the respondent manage to strengthen and fight?   If the evidence of the growth in the Endeavourite movement is anything to gy by, either the respondent was unable to strengthen the movement or simply gave up on the idea.    If the notion to stay and fight worked, then Central would be free of error today.   Instead, the cancerous corrupting influences have spread like wild fire.  

Another argument of those in Central is that they are not in fellowship with the Endeavourites.   How can this be?   When sis Julie Hurst came over to the UK in 2000, who was at that point in the Central group, we visited Scotland and visited a Central ecclesia in Edinburgh mid-week.  The speaker was Ian McHafee who was one of the inventors of the Endeavourite movement, unbeknown to me at the time.   It was the most appalling address I have ever listened to on Hebrews chapter 1, and a great lesson to me never to visit Central ecclesias.    Thankfully, sis Julie left Central shortly afterwards and joined the Bereans.    The point is, this Endeavourite ecclesia was listed in the Central directory as a Central ecclesia and so are recognised as part of the Central community.

A sister who has just re-joined Central recently, said to me last week, that she has re-read your booklet on the Doctrine of Fellowship and was amazed at how little Scriptural support was evidenced therein.    The claim was unbelievable to us!  She believes now in vertical fellowship, but would contend against an errorist in her ecclesia to the point of dis-association if they didn't change.   That's not vertical fellowship, that's at the door fellowship!  It was pointed out that when I was in the Wayfarers, a member of her new ecclesia sent his children to our Sunday School to ensure she wasn't taught any error.  He knew of four brethren in his ecclesia who believed the same as John Martin.   I know also of another brother in her ecclesia who had articles published in the Christadelphian that were astray on the Atonement.    It's a very serious position to fail to act in accordance with Divine commands.   

What a privileged people we are.  Our calling is a high calling and Christ's commands are clear, that the way is narrow and straight.  

Bro Steve
JimPhillips

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Could I get a definition  or example of what is meant by "at the door" fellowship?



As I understand the terms, "at the door fellowship" acknowledges that they are in fellowship with all they break bread with in their meeting.  They will stop those who they view as errorists from partaking in the emblems with them.  They feel no responsibility concerning other ecclesias.  It is "every ecclesia for itself."  Essentially, they ask Cain's question, "Am I my brothers keeper?

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While all this wrangling over history is both enlightening and instructive, none of it changes the bottom line as to where the two fellowships are today. - JP



A short sentence that speaks volumes.

Amen.



JimPhillips

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[QUOTE]A sister who has just re-joined Central recently, said to me last week, that she has re-read your booklet on the Doctrine of Fellowship and was amazed at how little Scriptural support was evidenced therein. [/QUOTE]
 
Of course these criticisms are always quite subjective.  But for the record, the following passages are referred to, many multiple times in The Doctrine of Fellowship.
 
Now, since the level of criticism right now is quite high, I would point out that often only a portion of the verse is quoted in my booklet, the underlined portion.  But in a reasonable study such as suggested by the sister, (ie. comparing a man's work to the Scriptures) I would think folks would go to the original, and place the portion quoted in context.  It is the context that I tried to give here.
 
Also in the way this is broken out, some contexts include surrounding verses, and some surrounding verses are set apart:  this happened because of the way I assembled the quotes.  Not for any hidden or mysterious reason.  If the first time I came across the quote, it was of 1 Cor. 5: 3-7, then I printed it as such.  Later I might find 1 Cor. 5: 1-2.  I recorded that as separate.  A later quote may have been 1 Cor. 5:1-7, and I just left the quote alone.  (It was faster that way.)
 

Lev 5:3  "Or if he touch the uncleanness of man, whatsoever uncleanness it be that a man shall be defiled withal, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty."

Deu 13:5  "And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee."

Deu 13:6-11  "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;  Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:  But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you."

Deu 13:12-15  "If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,  Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword."

Psa 12:3-4   "The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things: Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?"

Psa 119:105  "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path."

2 Chron 19:2 "And Jehu the son of Hanani the seer went out to meet him, and said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD."

2 Chron 30:18-19  "For a multitude of the people, even many of Ephraim, and Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun, had not cleansed themselves, yet did they eat the passover otherwise than it was written. But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, The good LORD pardon every one  That prepareth his heart to seek God, the LORD God of his fathers, though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary."

Dan 7:21-22  "I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;  Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom."

Isa 59:1  "Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:  But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear."

Isa 66:2  "For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word."

Jer 23:28  "The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD."

Mal 3:16  "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name."

Mat 7:14  "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it".

Mat 7:15-16  "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"

Mat 7:24-29  "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:  For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes."

Mat 10:34-36  "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

Mat 13:36-42  "Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.  He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;  The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;  The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.  The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;  And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 18:15-17 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Mat 18:21-22   "Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?  Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven."

Mat 18:35   "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses."

Mat 22:14  "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Mat 23:2-3  "Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

Mat 26:31  "Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad."

Mark 16:15-16  "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luke 1:17  "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

Luke 6:46  "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"

Luke 10:16   "He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me."

Luke 12:51-53  "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:  For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."

Luke 12:57  "Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?"

Luke 13:24  "Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."

Luke 23:34  "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots."

John 5:39   "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

John 7:40-43  "Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet. Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee? Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was? So there was a division among the people because of him.

John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;  And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

John 9:16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.

John 10:4-5  "And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers."

John 10:13-19  "The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.  No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings."

John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

John 12:49   For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 13:34   "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. "

John 14:15  "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

John 15:12  "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."

John 15:14  "Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you."

John 15:22-24  "If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.  He that hateth me hateth my Father also. If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father."

John 17:9   "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine."

John 17:11-16  "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.  And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.  They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world."

John 17:19-23  "And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.  Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;  That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Act 7:59-60  "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.  And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep."

Act 8:12   "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women."

Act 15:8-9  "And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;  And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith."

Act 15:14   "Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name."

Rom 1:20-32  "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,  And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.  Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:  And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,  Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Rom 2:1 "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things."

Rom 2:7  "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:"

Rom 2:12-16  "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;  (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Rom 8:3-4  "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:  That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Rom 8:9-14  "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.  For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."

Rom 9:6-7  "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:  Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called."

Rom 9:31-33  "But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."

Rom 14:4  "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand."

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

1 Cor 1:10  "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 Cor 1:23  "But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;"

1 Cor 2:10  "But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God."

1 Cor 3:16-17  "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?  If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

1 Cor  4:3-5  "But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.  For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God."

1 Cor  4:21   "What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?"

1Cor 5:1-2  "It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.  And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you."

1 Cor 5:3-5  "For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,  In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

1 Cor 5:6-13 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:  Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.  For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?  But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

1 Cor 10:16-21  "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?  For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

1 Cor 12:14  "For the body is not one member, but many."

1 Cor 12:24-26  "For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:  That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it."

1 Cor 13:1-7  "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.  And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,  Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;  Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

1 Cor 15:33   "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners."

2 Cor  5:17  "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

2 Cor. 6:14-17 "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers, for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the Temple of God with idols? for ye are the Temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."

2 Cor 8:4  "Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints."

2 Cor 9:13  "Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;"

2 Cor 10:8-10  "For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:  That I may not seem as if I would terrify you by letters. For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible."

2 Cor 11:3-4  "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.  For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

2 Cor 13:2-3  "I told you before, and foretell you, as if I were present, the second time; and being absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all other, that, if I come again, I will not spare: Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you."

2 Cor 13:10 Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.

Gal 1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Gal 2:3-6  "But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:

Gal 3:28  "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Gal 4:6-7  "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.  Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ."

Gal 5:6  "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love."

Gal 5:7-12 "Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be. And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased. I would they were even cut off which trouble you."

Gal 5:18-21  "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.  Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,  Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,  Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

Gal 5:22-23  "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

Gal 6:1  "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted."

Eph 1:7-12  "In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;  Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;  Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ."

Eph 4:3  "Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."

Eph 4:14-16  "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:  From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."

Eph 5:6-11 "Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers (fellowshipers) with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth  Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them."

Eph 5:27  That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Php 3:17-19  "Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.  (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Col 3:14  "And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness."

2Thess. 2:15  "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."

2 Thess 3:6 "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."

2 Thess 3:14-15 "And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother."

1 Tim 1:9-10  "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,  For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

1 Tim 1:18-20  "This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;  Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."

1 Tim 3:14-15  "These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:  But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."

1 Tim 5:22 "Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker (fellowshiper) of other men's sins: keep thyself pure."

1 Tim 6:3-5 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself."

1 Tim 6:20-21  "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:  Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen."

2 Tim 1:13  "Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus."

2 Tim 1:15  "This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes."

2 Tim 2:2  "And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also."

2 Tim 2:15-18   "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some."

2 Tim 2:19-21  "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.  But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."

2 Tim 3:1-5 "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

2 Tim 4:2-4  "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

2 Tim 3:6-14  "For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,  Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.  But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,  Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.  But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

2 Tim 3:16-17  "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

2 Tim  4:2-4  "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

2 Tim 4:16  "At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge."

Titus 1:9-11  "Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.  For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake."

Titus 3:9-11 "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."

Heb 3:6  "But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end."

Heb 9:13-14  "For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:  How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"

Heb 10:14  "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

Heb 10:25   "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. "

Heb 11:6  "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

Heb 11:24-26  "By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;  Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward."

James 2:13  "For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment."

James 2:26  "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

1 John 1:1-7 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.  This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth; but if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, His Son, cleanseth us from all sin"

1 John 2:3-6  "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

1 John 2:9  "He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now."

1 John 2:19  "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

1 John 3:14-16  "We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.  Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren."

1 John 4:1-3  "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.  Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1 John 4:8  "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

1John 5:4  "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."

1 John 5:19  "And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness."

2 John 1:1-2  "The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever."

2 John 1:4  "I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father."

2 John 1:6   "And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it."

2 John 1:7-11 "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

1 Pet 2:5  "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

1 Pet. 2:7-8  "Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,  And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed."

1 Pet 2:9   "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

1 Pet 2:15  "For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

1 Pet 2:21  "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:"

1 Pet. 2:23   "Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:"

1 Pet. 4:8  "And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins."

2 Pet 2:1-2  "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.  And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of."

2 Pet. 2:9  "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:  But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord."

Jude 1:3-4  "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

Jude 1:10-12  "But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.  Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;  Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Rev 1:3  "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand."

Rev 1:5-6  "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

Rev 2:2-6  I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.  Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.  Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Rev 2:9  'I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

Rev 2:13  "I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth."

Rev 2:14-17  "But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.  Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth."

Rev 2:20  Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Rev 3:14-16  "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;  I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."

Rev 4:11  Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Rev 11:3-5  "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed."

Rev 13:7-10  "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.  If any man have an ear, let him hear. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints."

Rev 14:9-11  "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."

Rev 14:12  "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

Rev 15:2   And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Rev 18:4  "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

Rev 18:21-24  "And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;  And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.  And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Rev 20:4   "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Rev 21:27 "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."

Rev 22:15-19  "For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.  I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

STEVEPHS

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Reply with quote  #74 
Quite amazing bro Jim to see just how many Scriptural quotations are included.     In the end, even if the command appeared just once to withdraw, then it would still be binding on us to act.

I remember a sister saying to a brother that the exceptive clause was only taught in one gospel, to which the brother replied, "which one is that, the uninspired gospel"?    The brother in so asking was merely pointing out to the sister the foolishness of her claim!

I really don't understand bro Genusa's position on fellowship.   He reminds me very much of the Logos brethren.   I remember listening to the Ashfield debates (I think there were 8 talks in total) and on that occasion, John Martin spoke on fellowship.    He said boldly, if Logos did not act, then Enfield would act, and if Enfield didn't act, then he would act!    Logos didn't act, Enfield didn't act, and John Martin did a complete U-Turn and he didn't act!

The brother who brought about the re-union between the Wayfarers and Old Paths in circa 2005, worked extremely hard to bring the re-union about.   Within a few months of the re-union, he left them, as did his sister wife and family and joined Central in the full knowledge of the errors that exist there.    One of his main downfalls was that he chose to visit regularly the Prophecy Days run by Bro Paul Billington, Bro Don Pearce etc and it would seem that the great pull and attraction toward Central was too much to resist.    There is a lesson in this for Bereans, for us to remember why we are separate and why apostolically we are commanded to set them apart from a fellowship point of view.

Bro Steve
JimPhillips

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Reply with quote  #75 
I suppose an interesting subject would be to get her to list all the verses where God grants permission to ignore and yet include error or errorists into 1) a local ecclesia, 2) a neighboring ecclesia, or 3) an ecclesia anywhere in the world.

In that exercise I went through over the weekend, one of the things that stood out to me, were the verses that the brethren had used for support of their views, which were used to show the mind of God.  Verses like "Why do you help the ungodly?  "My sheep hear my voice."  "If ye love me, keep my commandments."  "If ye were blind, ye should not have sin.  But now ye say,ye see, therefore your sin remaineth."

Meditating on these verses is bound to make one see that what we are calling "Vertical Fellowship" and "At the Door Fellowship" completely break down throughout  the Divine message, not merely in the verses which outright call for withdrawal from error. 


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